Try swimming the Rhine next time

Pirate (which I think we can now admit to being Josh’s nom de BHT) comments on evangelicals who swim the Tiber:

Meh. I have this theory that a large plurality of evangelicals who become Roman Catholics think they’re becoming Lutherans. I mean, a lot of them think they’re getting a historic liturgy, ancient practice, and an evangelical understanding of grace with a sacramental package providing assurance. But what they’re really getting is crappy Marty Haugen rites, medieval novelty, and dogmatic doubt.

I mean, you almost never see evangelicals swimming the Tiber because they’re really excited about being able to get indulgences, sacrificing Masses to get their grandmas out of purgatory, or doubting whether they’re in the state of grace.

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6 Responses to Try swimming the Rhine next time

  1. JS Bangs says:

    Josh is largely correct, but I think he missed a big point: the “One True Church” cachet of the RCC. Lutherans don’t make such a claim, and they lack the obvious institutional continuity that the RCC has with the earlier ages of the church, all of which makes them less attractive for people seeking the authentic, historical church.

    Of course, Lutherans claim to have continuity with apostolic doctrine and think that it makes up for the institutional discontinuity, but no one believes them except other Lutherans ;).

  2. Josh S says:

    Lutherans don’t make such a claim

    We most certainly do. We just don’t make a big deal about it because we’re ashamed to be as awesome as we are. I mean, if everyone else figured how totally sweet Lutheranism is, they’d feel like suckers. We claim that the One True Church is found wherever the Gospel is proclaimed in its purity and the Sacraments are administered according to their institution. The Augsburg Confession goes on to define what that means. The One True Church believes the Gospel that the Lutheran Church confesses, and administers the Sacraments that the Lutherans administer.

    Of course, being that we are simultaneously righteous and sinful, it is no surprise that in the same person, there dwells Lutheran faith according to the new man, but accolades to the papacy, denial of the Real Presence, and limited atonement according to the old man. He is simultaneously orthodox and heretical.

  3. Lito Cruz says:

    I am not so sure they think they are becoming Lutherans because evangelicals who become Roman do not have a clue what Lutheranism is

    It is a swing to both extremes. I observe that both guns are on Lutherans, on the one hand we are on the left of RCC and on the other we are on the right of the Reformed.

    I think the Lutheranism that evangelicalism knows is mainly liberal so that is scratch out of the list right away. It is of course ignorance.

    There is much misunderstanding on how we treat the solas of the Reformation. Evangelicals believe that sola fide means no sacraments, they alos think that sola scriptura means no Fathers, no Creeds etc. But on another note, evangelicals will swing to ROme because evangelicalis is alreayd pelagian if not semi-pelagian without sacraments – the two do have somethings in common.

    Lito

  4. Pingback: Confessing Evangelical » Blog Archive » From Augsburg with love

  5. Josh S says:

    Lito, I don’t at all mean they’ve examined the historical Lutheran Reformation and its texts. I mean that if you look at the theology and liturgical tradition they think they’re getting by going to Rome, it’s actually much more akin to what Lutherans have than what Rome has.

  6. Lito Cruz says:

    On another note, Josh, I have seen ex-Lutheran pastors swim to the Vatican, because , they think they can be crypto-Lutheran inside it and the Pope will allow you to be like that so long as you don’t cross him.

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